Episode #034 Why Bookkeepers Should Outsource Their Business Bookkeeping
Does the thought of outsourcing your bookkeeping make you cringe or give you anxiety? Or, maybe you think you'd be doing yourself out of a job?
But, what if by outsourcing you could focus on the tasks you LOVE, and spend time actually growing your business?!
In this weeks Podcast episode, Amy discusses three reasons why she believes bookkeepers in the Full up and Move up stage of business should think about outsourcing their bookkeeping.
She chats about creating transparency and accountability with your clients and outsourced staff, maintaining your (and your businesses) integrity, making sure you practice what you preach and how to create freedom inside your business.
Host: Amy Hooke
Guest speaker: None
Topic: Why Bookkeepers Should Outsource Their Business Bookkeeping
Welcome back and today we're talking about an interesting topic. So let's get straight into it.
The topic today is why bookkeepers shouldn't do their own bookkeeping. Now, I'm not saying this to this topic to particularly try and push people's buttons, although I know that it might. I know in the past, when I've had these types of discussions at ABN meetings and things like that that I tend to have a lot of people quite strongly disagreeing with me. And I'm cool with that, obviously. I am going to talk about it today and I've got made basically three reasons why. I think that bookkeepers should not do their own bookkeeping. Now, if you're a startup bookkeeper, I'm not especially talking to you. So if you're I'm talking more to the bookkeeping business owners who still do their own bookkeeping.
And I also, I guess, potentially the full up bookkeepers who I would say it's now time to start thinking about outsourcing your own bookkeeping. Now, I've felt quite strongly about this for a number of years. I do not do my own bookkeeping. I have not done my own bookkeeping for a number of years, and I have my reasons for that. And I have also heard the arguments against what I'm about to say. So what I'm going to do is put forward my best argument of reasons of why I don't think that you should be doing your own bookkeeping. And then it's really up to you, obviously, to decide whether you agree, disagree or some kind of mixture of both. Maybe you’ll like some of the points and some of them you might not agree with that. That's cool my heart behind sharing this isn't to tell anybody off or you tell people what to do, but more because I see it as something that will bring some change to overall to our industry and to you as a business owner. So I feel that the onward effect from this type of conversation, I feel that there's good things to come from this for our industry as a whole, but also for individuals and their practises.
So before I tell you the first one, I'm going to tell you the argument against it first, which might sound a little bit funny, but one thing that I've heard and actually just about track quickly, I can tell you that I've only actually spoken to one other bookkeeper. I know a lot of bookkeepers, and I only know one bookkeeper that doesn't do their own bookkeeping. Now on might be just because the people that have outsourced bookkeeping have not told me well, maybe haven't had that discussion when they're there.
But I have personally only ever spoken to one bookkeeper who says they do not do their own bookkeeping aside from me. So the argument that I've received from many bookkeepers is along the lines of “it's quicker for me to do and after all, that's my profession. That's what I'm good at. And I would honestly rather do my own bookkeeping and the money that I saved by doing my own bookkeeping, because I can get it done really quickly and put that money towards paying someone to come and clean my house” or something like that. So what we're talking about here is my first point, which is really about what is the purpose of bookkeeping, that is, I think that's a question that needs to be answered before we can decide whether we should or should not be doing our own bookkeeping.
Now, a lot of people think that bookkeeping is data entry, entering transactions, GST quote, allocating expenses and things like that. They think it's bank reconciliations. They think that it’s BAS preparation, they think that its payroll there's all sorts of things that people might tell you if you are somewhat bookkeeping is so. But really, the general crux of it is that it's about recording financial transactions so that whoever does the financial reporting, whether it's bookkeeper or accountant or the client himself, it's, you know, it's about recording the financial transactions of the business so that other information other things could be done with the data well, which might be compliance. It might be business decision making is also it's a different things that the numbers go into. So the bookkeeping is really about, you know, keeping the books. Bookkeeping = keeping the books. So basically, for those who are of the younger generation, the reason it's called keeping the books is because many years ago we used to actually record transactions in electoral book.
Now, when I say way, I mean other bookkeepers because I am not of that generation that ever recorded accounts in a book, although I can say we would have back when I was working my dad's clothing retail, not retail. Sorry, Dad had a couple of second hand clothing stores when I was a kid, and we used to record the sales in a book. And, you know, if worked for clients who still record their sales in a book. So obviously that still exists. But I'm talking about where, back in the day where every single transaction used to be recorded in its own ledger book So you'd have the sales ledger on the purchase ledger and you'd have a ledger for, you know, for the bank account and that kind of thing. So but that doesn't, that doesn't happen anymore because we have software that does that. And, you know, even people who don't use software, they tend to sort of use spreadsheets. And that said, there are still people that do the bookkeeping in a book, but it's not double entry accounting. It's just it'll be recording a single ledger, recording all the sales it might be recording the petty cash, the ins and outs and things like that. But it wouldn't be an entire bookkeeping double entry bookkeeping system that they're keeping their, whereas once upon a time that actually what it was.
And why do we record financial transactions in the first place? Is it because the ATO says we have to or is there another reason why? Now, if you think back to a time when the ATO didn't actually exist, perhaps even Australia didn't exist. So we didn't need a tax office back, you know, actually, the earliest signs that were of a found of bookkeeping were around. I think it was about five thousand years ago. So we're talking like, you know, two thousand BC sort of so many, many years ago, people used to keep their books.
When I say books that such a habit to say. But the people would take stark off their assets and what was owed to them and buy them. And so, you know, it's been discovered that back in the day it was done with stones, so people would use stones to represent various assets and liabilities and that kind of thing, so that was a very, very long time ago quite a primitive way of doing things. And then, you know, the next thing that was really discovered was that, you know, I think, you know, they keep a tally of things on it on us, like a starting tablet, which is what they used to use, you know, like thousand. I'm talking thousands of years ago.
And then in the eleventh century, that's when it was understood that double entry accounting, double entry bookkeeping, as it was called back then was used in Egypt to keep a double entry bookkeeping system. And it's believed that it was the Jewish community that pioneered this way in order to keep banking type records for lending money and that kind of thing. So the Italians are actually the ones that were given credit for double entry accounting.
The first double entry accounting system was developed by Italians, a number of Italians and Luca Pacioli. He's known to be the father. He's the person who we now recognise or know, as the father of the double-entry accounting and bookkeeping.
Now, he wasn't actually the first person to publish a work on double-entry accounting. A man by the name of the Amatino Manucci kept the accounts for a company. They kept the financial records for a company around 1300s and then Luca Pacioli basically, well, he collaborated with someone who probably have heard of. If you haven't heard of these two men, which is Leonardo da Vinci, and basically without going into too much detail, these guys really got together and did some serious mathematical work, which is the basis for a lot of what we do now these days in double-entry accounting mathematics.
Even though, is Amatino who's keeping, he was keeping the accounts of a pretty prestigious company back in the time, but it was actually Luca Pacioli that came along and put it into a format that could be understood by others. So that they could learn the way that those accounts were kept. Are you still with me again in a little bit, a little bit of a history lesson here, and I think it's good for us to have the foundation to have the understanding of where our profession has come from. And so you know, the reason that accounts were kept all those years ago. I have been talking like, I guess we're talking seven. Over seven hundred years ago, people were keeping accounts, and I found it quite funny. And I was reading a book. Have mentioned this in the podcast, but I'm reading. I'm reading a book called The Reckoning. Yes, I'm still reading that. It's quite a details historical book. So takes me quite a while to get through things like that. But in this book, it talks about how back in the day they kept real-time accounts. And so that's I mean, the job of a bookkeeper was incredibly press was actually considered a prestigious role. And because, you know, the richest people in the world employed these bookkeepers to come and manage their companies and their banks and things like that.
And so it was really a full time job. So basically the bookkeeper would hang around and just record the transactions as they happened. The double entry, the double side of each entry, that recorder at the same time. And it kind of makes you laugh, because today you know, it's bookkeepers dream to have real time accounts, right? So basically we're always striving towards getting real time accounts. We've been promising our clients real time accounts for many, many years. You know, I remember. Like over ten years ago, my boss was back in the accounting firm, promising clients real time accounts for their bookkeeping. And it would never happen because, you know, the client would be like a month behind sending the information in. So it just wasn't possible today with Xero and Receipt Bank and bank feeds. And you know, these softwares that enables us to kind of link everything together. The gap is getting smaller and smaller. Like so.
For example, the other day, I was actually in Receipt Bank for the first time in quite a while, I had to jump into the file and do a couple of things. And so I saw a few things in the inbox, and I actually uploaded a couple of receipts which I haven't done for a long time. And it was quite interesting that the, what was really interesting, but it just kind of took me by surprise, because I remember you used to have to sometimes wait, you know, 8 hours or something, or sometimes even overnight. But really quite a long time for the receipts to upload whereas so didn't happen with all of them. But quite a few of them were up instantly. And I thought, Oh, my goodness, like it's getting the gap is getting smaller. And I just think, How cool is this? You know, we are getting closer to real time accounts, but still, you know, we're 34 hours behind the bank feeds and real time accounts. I'm not there yet, although I do see the gap getting smaller with the introduction of the Blockchain technology, you know? I mean, I want my gosh, this would be a whole other podcast. But what changed technology basically allows you and, you know, will allow us and our clients to be able to do many transactions instantaneously, fully reconciled to the point where there will be no need for a bookkeeper in recording that actual transaction.
So just to give you a little bit of an example, I don't know if any of you have heard of David Martin. But he's the director at Power Ledger, which is a power company in WA company that is entirely on the block chain. And I did a Blockchain course last year and got the opportunity to ask David a very burning question that I had, which I will maybe I should share that in a blog post. That would be really cool. But anyway, just to not get off topic. Basically, David explained to me how Power Ledgers using the Blockchain to basically have real time accounts for electricity. So remember back in the day, we had to wait for the metre readers to come out? Well, those days are gone, and they have these really time live accounts. But anyway, the way they having there, you know, the way that their financial accounts actually work, you know, it completely closes that gap, and I don't see any way possible that that's not going to happen in the bookkeeping industry. You know, if you can do it with electricity, you can do it with any transaction. So there are cases and examples of bookkeeping transactions happening, and there are platforms are already do this where you can send an invoice to a client and the invoice can instantly appear in their account on. They can see it there, and then when they pay it, the payment goes instantaneously into their into their account. Whilst simultaneously reconciling the transaction against the bank against the closing off the inside invoice on both sides of the ledger, both for the client the customer and the seller.
So that's the sort of that's a power of blockchain technology, which, you know a lot of people out there are quite sceptical about. But it is a real thing and there are many companies and government organisations already using this to a great level. So you know, Blockchain is not just about crypto currencies, but it's also a ledger. The watch chain is a ledger . It's a very interesting ledger to study and to learn about and as a bookkeeper. If you don't know about Blockchain, you should probably take at least a little bit of time to do a bit of research and learn about that because there are. You know, I don't know when this software will become really mainstream, but Australia is really one of the countries that is leading the way,
But it's kind of a lot of people and a lot of industries. It's still sort of a little bit like a fringe technology, but it's really, you know, it is, Ah, is, ah, growing industry. It's in its early stages. But you know, the reality is that Blockchain makes real time accounts possible, and it's only a matter of time until it starts to get more adapted in the mainstream on by the major software companies.
So I mean, obviously, Xeros denied that Blockchain is anything but so I either think, well, like they either have their head buried in the sand and don't know what they're talking about, which I highly doubt. So I would suspect that the would have something about this slave would be more likely. QuickBooks is already already using the blockchain in some way, and there's a lot of software companies out there that are already using the Blockchain. So that's that's just a little side note to relates to the topic that we're talking about here because what we're talking about, I'm talking about real time accounts, but really I'm coming back to talk about the recording of transactions. And the purpose of recording a transport transaction is about accountability. It's about transparency. It's not just about recording transactions. It's about, you know, the business allows a business owner just get a snapshot of their financial position at any one time. Well, it will once the accounts are up to date and live. But, but if that's all bookkeeping is and it doesn't matter if bookkeepers do their own bookkeeping. But if bookkeeping really is about transparency and accountability, then I believe that as bookkeepers that we should…
Yeah, like it's really you know, we need to be as transparent and accountable as the next business owner. I don't really see what makes us different just because we're bookkeepers. I think that, you know, like someone has made the argument to me before. But you know, like I'm sure that plumbers fix their own plumbing. But, you know, plumbing isn't about transparency and accountability. Plumbing is about flushing your food hasn't talked about it like it's a completely different thing.
And so I think that it's important for bookkeepers to have transparency and accountability and the reason why I think that we should have that is because of the two next reasons that I have off level keepers shouldn't do their own bookkeeping. And so you know this perfectly segways me into number two, which is to practise what we preach now if we're telling because as bookkeepers, we tell but we tell business owners all the time that they shouldn't do their own bookkeeping. And this is where the argument crops up. Yeah, but they're no experts, and they don't know what they're doing. And it's like, Well, okay, like firstly like, let's say the book. If the business owner was really good about bookkeeping, does that mean that they shouldn't have a bookkeeper? Well, I think when a business reaches a certain level, then it's time for transparency and accountability. When the businesses in the startup face, I mean started businesses do whatever they want. Anyway, I've never really met a startup business owner who, like, properly, takes advice like they're sort of excited and things like that. But I find that startups don't really want to necessarily take on the wisdom of people who are at a more advanced level. They like to trial and error things for themselves. And I don't think that's necessarily wrong, because I think that's what kind of helps us to embed a strong foundation, knowing that we worked it out for ourselves. So, um, you know, if as bookkeepers.
We are telling business owners that they shouldn't be doing their own bookkeeping. And if we think that it's just because they don't know what they're doing, they don't know how to record transactions. Well, I can tell you that there actually are business owners out there that are completely smart enough to do their own transactions. We like to think that as bookkeepers, where sort of like this special breed of human being that we're the only ones that know how to record financial transactions. And it isn't true. Okay, yes, there's certain specialisations in the industry that you know it’s good to have a bookkeeper who's experienced, you know, working on the accounts. But at the end of the day, yes, business owners, whether they're able to do bookkeeping or not is completely not the point, because bookkeeping is about transparency and accountability as well as all of the other benefits of bookkeeping is for, And you cannot have transparency and accountability if you don't have another second set of eyes on your accounts. And so that's why I believe that bookkeepers, shouldn't do their own bookkeeping because it lays by not doing our own bookkeeping. We get to practise what we preach and when we practise what we preach. The cool thing is we start to actually know whether what we're telling the client is correct or not.
You know, if way might you know what we can say all sorts of things to a business owner, and it could be, you know, we might, for example, tell them which software they should do is. And that might be based on the fact that that's the best software for their business. Or it might be back based on the fact that that's the software where you like using. So we're not necessarily always informed. And so I think once we start, to practise what we preach, you know, it helps us to have a more solid foundation to be able to speak to a business owner with a full sense of integrity. And I know that integrity is something that we so value.
And for me, you know, I felt that it's important, you know, if I'm telling a client to do something, I need to say, Do what I do, not what I say. I don't want to be a hypocrite and What I want to do is demonstrate to the business owners that I work with. I'm a business owner just like you. You know, I have a bookkeeper, but I know what it's like to have to hire a bookkeeper. I know what it's like to have a bookkeeper that doesn't know what they're doing. You know, I know what it's like to have a great bookkeeper and someone who does know what they're doing. And so what happens is by being willing to allow someone in. And this is giving me the perfect segue way into Number three, which is great.
You know, it gives us the ability to be able to step up to the next level where we become and we actually become an equal with that business owner. I'm not just a bookkeeper, I'm a business owner, and I know what it's like. And so once you are able to reach that point, it gives you a huge amount of leverage with the business owner because they take you more seriously. Whereas if you you know, if you don't run your business like it's a business, you can't necessarily expect a business owner to take you seriously if you're going to be wanted to give them more advice than this is how you code a transaction or this is how you, you know, prepare a BAS statement. If you want to go beyond that and not everybody does. And there's nothing wrong with that as well.
You know, Not everyone wants to grow their business, and that is actually fine. I will even do it. I'm quite happy to do a podcast about that because I don't believe that everyone should be growing their business. Not everyone wants to grow their business. Not everybody needs to grow their business. But for those of you that have reached a point where you are running a practise, you have a team or you're getting to the full upstate where you need to hire a team. You know, it's really something to consider. You know, if you've already got staff, you're in the perfect position to be able to have one of your team members take over the practise bookkeeping. Which brings me to number three. Because I know you might be listening to this right now thinking, Oh my gosh, I don't want to ever let my staff go into my accounts and there is a reason why.
What is the reason? Okay, I've had this conversation with other bookkeepers who still do their own bookkeeping. And so number three on my list is about letting go of control. It is scary. Oh, my God. I would be lying if I didn't. I say to you that it is.
It's scary to let somebody into your personal finances. I have left my phone on. Just give me a moment. Oh good, oh good. That was my very lovely marketing manager, Rene. I'm looking for to speaking to her this morning, but obviously have to finish the podcast. So where was I? So I was talking about letting somebody in that place. Now, you know, when I first actually allowed my bookkeeper my one of my bookkeeper, who was working on my client work when I led her to come in and work on our accounts, Like, to me, that was scary, because it's personal. And, you know, we don't like to show everyone our you know, our financial position, the balance of our bank account, our P&L. Now all of those things and what it made me realise when I handed over to her, I realised on such a date level the amount of trust that my client's put into me. Now, I did have some clients back in the past that were quite closed and protective. There are only a couple, and I didn't understand what was going on. I just thought that will we.
Whereas once I let somebody into my own accounts, I was able to see Wow, Like many, many of my clients did not hesitate to let me straight into their finances. They trusted me and they weren't ashamed. You know, they even the clients that I've got now just, you know, like all the clients I have now very trusting people they haven't hesitated to share, you know, lay it all out on the table and share everything openly. Whereas for me it just, well, gosh, like it took me a little while. You know what? I will be completely honest here, and I'm not exactly proud about this, but it wasn't until I got my BAS agent registration in 2014, put in my application actually was started 2015 that I actually submitted the application. And when I put that in, obviously, So when you're a BAS agent, you must have your accounts up to date and your tax returns and your best statements must all be up to date. Now, I don't know if any of you have a family trust or any other entities and saying things like that, but I kind of inherited. I'd say I use that word lightly because it wasn't that someone died, but I inherited. Let's say I inherited a problem, which was a family trust, which had all sorts of kind of baggage that came with it.
And so for me, I had not kept the accounts up to date for that. So in order for me to get my BAS agent registration, I had to bring these accounts up to date. I reckon I was a decade behind in my accounts. It was just It was one of those painful things I wish I'd never got involved in. And it went in the two hard basket for a long time until I was confronted with the fact that I need to do it now. That said, it's not like I never gave it Any thought that stupid family trust produce so much anxiety? Me in the background, I was always thinking, Oh, my gosh, like the ATO’s gonna contact me. And I just you know, for me, being a bookkeeper and knowing that my accounts weren't up to date like that was a horrible feeling and I lived like that for way too long, just putting it aside, pretending that I didn't you know, I just don't think about it just avoiding it and thinking I well, there's not much in it nor that kind of stuff. But it was like it was quite a lot of work to get that well up to date. So I had to get all that up-to-date in quite a short period of time so I could become about it. Oh, my God. I would never want to go back there again. But on some level, that gave me some empathy, you know, with my clients who get so behind because I see you know what keep is a posting in Facebook groups all the time. Like basically going Oh, my gosh. Like I can't believe this person. So behind and things like that. And you know, I think until you've been there, you know, I mean, obviously, you don't have to have been there to show empathy towards people, but it definitely helps when you can say to someone. Look, I've been in this situation. I've seen a lot of other people in this situation, and it's just reality sometimes things too painful to confront especially, you know, when families involved and things have happened in the past. And you know all sorts of things, like sometimes there's just stuff that's too painful. You just don't want to go there. So I've been in that position myself, and I've gotten, you know, I don't want to relive it. But anyway, here I am, talking about it. So you know, for me, you know it’s… It's been a cool journey about understanding the place of accounting and understanding that just because I'm a good bookkeeper doesn't mean that I should be doing on my bookkeeping and understanding the underlying subtle torment of knowing that you're not practising what you're preaching and that the reason that you're not doing that is because there is a control issue going on like, yeah, It's just one of those things.
And I've spoken to a number of my clients about having them hand over their bookkeeping, and they'll flat out tell me I'm too much of a control freak. Let someone into my accounts and I'm just going to say right now that you know, I'm not going to judge anyone for being a control freak. Like, you know, I've been there and, you know, I think Control Freak is actually quite a derogatory word like it’s not a very nice thing to say about somebody else or yourself. Really. I don't think that anyone is necessarily a control freak except for like, proper psychopaths, like people that actually have personality disorders or whatever. But I'm talking about, you know, I don't think we should labour ourselves as control freaks. I think what happens is know it's shameful. It could be embarrassing. You don't want to know, like and so for me, even after I started the book keeping business and I've already shared this before, even after I got all of that sorted our But I can tell you, you know, in my first yeah, well keeping. I think I I think I made like, well, I think my income was around one thousand dollars a month in my first year. It wasn't a four year sort of like nine months or something like that. And then in my second year, you know, that's when operable. It'll the clients until I got up to about 11K a month. And so even though, you know, I got my income up to really decent income, you know, like for that time, I just I never used to look at my pay and I remember when I actually did, and I realised that the end of the that second financial year that I'd not only spent all my profit, but I've spent thirty thousand dollars off my husband's wages on the business like my spending had gotten out of control. And I can tell you like I don't have a wardrobe full of shoes or any fancy furniture or anything like that. My shopping addiction was software programmes. I want to just try every single software programme in the world. I was having a lot of fun at the time. I thought it was fun and then I realised it's actually not that fun, then you kind of get sick of it.
And the, you know, the excitement of learning the new software's wears off. I found myself with a lot less money than what I'd actually earned, and that was embarrassing too, you know, that was around. It was around that point that I had to invite a bookkeeper in to look at my accounts from And I had a couple of what keepers that worked for me during that period and,you know, trying to find the right one and you know, to may like that was that was hugely embarrassing.
Like to think I'm earning all this money, but there's no money in the bank and then looking my pain l and going on my crash like whatever done. And, you know, I remember having to approach my husband, and he was very, very understanding. I don't think that money has gone to waste because a lot of what I've learned from that not just the experience but also, you know, I have learned a lot about various software integrations and things like that. So I just put it down to training and experience and, you know, and so to be able to learn from that has been great. And so anyway, obviously you can tell this is something that I do feel quite passionate about. You know, you might be listening and thinking, Well, you know, that's just your opinion. That's just your your personal experience. That's what works for you. And in a way that is true. You know, like I'm not here to judge anyone or make them feel bad. I guess who I'm speaking to is the people that actually already feel that what I mean, if you sort of think like I like, I don't care like it's not important to me that I'm doing that. I'm outsourcing my bookkeeping. I don't feel that that lacks integrity for me my clients and for some people it might not like you might, you know, for you. And you might be cool to go with the whole you know, plumber. What is it? It's kind of gross.
Think of a better example. Amy, I don't know, like a chef doesn't cook at home, that’s a bit of a nicer one so Chef doesn't cook at home like that's actually legitimate, and it's cool and you know it's not. It's actually not wrong, and you might be at the stage in business where it doesn't really matter anyway. But, you know, I guess who I'm talking to those you know, I would say, if you're really fearful, like if you cringe when I if you cringe when I said Let someone else do your own bookkeeping if you cringe, there's something going I'm going to tell you. I'm going to assert that there's something going on there and so, you know, like I think you might actually benefit from that. Like, I think what happens is when we start to feel really uncomfortable about something. When we try and come up with lots of ways to defend ourselves against something may be there. So been going on there. You know, if you're a person who does feel uncomfortable that you're saying one thing to a client but not doing it yourself, then I definitely recommend that you give it a shot.
You know, I think that it will add a huge depth to your business, and you know it will deepen your range of experience as a business owner to be able to reconnect with your clients on a deeper level, and to be able to take that, I'm a business owner just like you approach and to be able to build your credibility with them. You know, it's something that I recommend for anyone who's at that level.
Just give it a go. Do you know what I mean? Like, I mean, my bookkeeper works like maximum ten hours a month. So she works for me at Savvy, and she also worked somewhere Off The Hooke Bookkeeping quiet, which is outside of that ten hours. So that's a separate agreement. And yeah, you know, I mean, I still lodge the BAS. My bookkeeper is not a BAS agent, but I still lodge the BAS.
At the end of the quarter. So I still, you know, I still review her work. Have a like a bit of a quick cheque, but I don't really do it in a lot of detail, to be honest, like, I just have a quick overview of the detailed GST report and cheque, the P&L and the balance sheet and payroll reports, and that's it.
So, yeah, I really hope this has been helpful. I love to hear back from you, whether you loved the idea or hated or somewhere in between. Or maybe you like bits and pieces of it. Or maybe you're struggling with letting go of control. Maybe you're struggling with labelling yourself a control freak when you just need to give yourself a little bit of a break on, be kind to yourself. You know, I'd love to know your thoughts about this are, Please place the Facebook groups and me an email if you want to. I gave my email last week's episode. If you wanna have a listen to that week, a month, seven off the bookkeeping projects that can have a listen. Apart from that, I think that's everything. I will have a guest on that next week, which is exciting. We're going to have Tony Hughes, who is a I guess I would say he's a mentor, to sales people around Australia and even around the world. So he's going to come in and talk to us about building a sales pipeline, and he's particular method of selling that he likes to do so that should give us some encouragement. So anyway, thank you for joining me again. It's been lovely spending time with you today and I will see you again next week. I won't see you. You won't even see me, but you'll hear my voice and have a good one.